Comments on: Book review – Free Agents: How Evolution Gave Us Free Will/2024/01/23/book-review-free-agents-how-evolution-gave-us-free-will/Reviewing fascinating science books since 2017Thu, 06 Feb 2025 14:23:46 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.com/By: Year list – The Inquisitive Biologist’s top 5 reads of 2024 | The Inquisitive Biologist/2024/01/23/book-review-free-agents-how-evolution-gave-us-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-95148Tue, 31 Dec 2024 10:17:01 +0000/?p=24637#comment-95148[…] the category “also-ran”, honorary mention goes to Free Agents: How Evolution Gave Us Free Will and Alfie & Me: What Owls Know, What Humans Believe. I would have loved to include these deeply […]

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By: サンフランシスコのレジェンド、Mitchell's Ice Creamを深掘り:70年愛される秘密と知られざるエピソード | ABITA LLC&MARKETING JAPAN/2024/01/23/book-review-free-agents-how-evolution-gave-us-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-95138Sun, 22 Dec 2024 00:29:29 +0000/?p=24637#comment-95138[…] 参考サイト: – Joni Mitchell's Lentil Soup Recipe Is So Good, She Eats It for Breakfast ( 2024-10-20 ) – Know Thyself: The Philosophy of Self-Knowledge – UConn Today ( 2018-08-07 ) – Book review – Free Agents: How Evolution Gave Us Free Will ( 2024-01-23 ) […]

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By: Book review – Biocivilisations: A New Look at the Science of Life | The Inquisitive Biologist/2024/01/23/book-review-free-agents-how-evolution-gave-us-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-94894Fri, 31 May 2024 11:43:01 +0000/?p=24637#comment-94894[…] flux, that “life is permanent change” (p. 28), appeals. I recently praised both Kevin J. Mitchell and Carl Safina for effectively writing the same. He links this to the discipline of processual […]

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By: Book review – Alfie & Me: What Owls Know, What Humans Believe | The Inquisitive Biologist/2024/01/23/book-review-free-agents-how-evolution-gave-us-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-94867Thu, 16 May 2024 15:13:31 +0000/?p=24637#comment-94867[…] a turbulent flow” (p. 167) which so nicely gels with Kevin Mitchell’s observations in Free Agents that “life is not a state, it is a process […] persisting through time” (p. 26 […]

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By: jandansen/2024/01/23/book-review-free-agents-how-evolution-gave-us-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-94845Mon, 22 Apr 2024 20:15:16 +0000/?p=24637#comment-94845I’ve followed Harris’ arguments, and Jerry Coyne. Listening to Dennet’s (RIP) rebuttals, Dan just seemed to cloud things. Sean Carroll tries to stay above the fray by calling Free Will “emergent” – and saying that a discussion of atoms and forces is too low level, that the behavior emerges with the complexity of biology. He also points out that to say something is deterministic but can never be predicted allows for Free Will to hide in the ambiguity – and as we are able to predict he’ll agree with limiting his definition of Free Will.
Personally, I agree with the determinists – that the physics that underlay our selves provides no purchase for a ghost in the machine making the decision, but I don’t find much utility in that argument.
I think it get’s a little fuzzy when it’s said that “we” or “you” have free will. What is this “we” or “you” that is talked about? If “you” is simply your conscious self – then there are a TON of unconscious drivers for our decisions – effectively competing agents. I think it’s this situation, where a “I” thinks it’s in charge – making decisions – but it turns out these are mostly post-hoc rationalizations of an unconscious process. I think that’s how Sam and Bob S. gain traction – they can point to all of the situations where “choice” is influenced by unknown external/internal factors and say, see, the “you” can be made to dance by pulling invisible strings – we don’t have free will… and they’re right.
And their assertion that all of the agents eventually follow the rules of physics is also right. But this doesn’t really resolve much except stick the finger in the eye of our intuition that “we” are the masters of our fate.
I think the most constructive path is to discuss how each person’s subconscious informs their decision in complex and only faintly predictable ways, while the “you” feels that it’s making decisions. Explain that these agents are really driving our decisions – and then, as Sean does, call “free will” that unpredictable outcome of a person’s agents.

Interested to hear what others feel.

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By: Amateur neuroscientist/2024/01/23/book-review-free-agents-how-evolution-gave-us-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-94781Sun, 25 Feb 2024 23:18:28 +0000/?p=24637#comment-94781Review of “Free agents: how evolution gave us free will” Mitchell 2023

This is a wonderful book that covers many difficult areas relating to the human brain using language that is understandable by ordinary mortals. The author covers a huge amount of useful background in leading up to the titular subject of free will, but almost all of it is required (with perhaps one exception of the discussion in chapter 10 on psychological personality traits). But I do have a number of criticisms:

1) There are very few references. There is a bibliography of suggested sources of more information for each chapter at the end of the book, but only a small number of these are specifically referenced with footnotes in the text. There were quite a few places where I would like to have known the source of the information the author was quoting, but there was no reference given.

2) There is no specific mention of different “levels of description” of functionality in the brain. The topic is discussed indirectly in a number of places, and the impression strongly given that the author believes that there are different levels at which the functioning of the brain can be described, but I found it frustrating that there was no specific delineation of levels.

3) Consciousness was glossed over rather rapidly. There are several places in the early parts of the book that say that the distinction between conscious and subconscious processes will be covered later, but when the section on consciousness is finally reached in chapter 11, all it says is that “We are configured so that most of our cognitive processes operate subconsciously, with only certain types of information bubbling up to consciousness on a need-to-know basis.”

I have created a new website that contains proposals that cover these last two issues – see hierarchicalbrain.com

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By: Book review – The Evolutionary Origins of Life and Death | The Inquisitive Biologist/2024/01/23/book-review-free-agents-how-evolution-gave-us-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-94753Fri, 09 Feb 2024 15:37:49 +0000/?p=24637#comment-94753[…] to maximize fitness. Kevin Mitchell unwittingly (for he does not mention the term) put it nicely in Free Agents: “while not purposive itself, evolution does imbue the resulting life-forms with their own […]

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By: bormgans/2024/01/23/book-review-free-agents-how-evolution-gave-us-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-94734Fri, 26 Jan 2024 14:31:41 +0000/?p=24637#comment-94734In reply to inquisitivebiologist.

yes good points about proving a negative. As a materialist, I just see no escape from causality.

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By: inquisitivebiologist/2024/01/23/book-review-free-agents-how-evolution-gave-us-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-94732Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:54:47 +0000/?p=24637#comment-94732In reply to bormgans.

I see, yes. I admit I’m not convinced I find that a useful approach. It narrows the possible answers down to two extremes, neither of which sound realistic. Does that position interpret “it exists” as “a limited amount is not no free will, thus it exists”, or as “the only acceptable form is absolute free will” which is meaningless. Sapolsky is trying to proof a negative and the evidence he marshals doesn’t add up to support full rejection, hence I think he leaps to his conclusion.

Questions I raised in my review of his book is with which camp the burden of proof lies and what our default assumption should be in the meantime, as long as we cannot resolve this question. Those are questions he does not consider.

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By: bormgans/2024/01/23/book-review-free-agents-how-evolution-gave-us-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-94731Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:22:12 +0000/?p=24637#comment-94731In reply to inquisitivebiologist.

I think you don´t understand the leap because he uses ´free´ in absolute terms. it´s a zero- one thing: it either exists or it doesn’t.

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